由于大片扎堆，最近两周我马不停蹄飞了三个大洲参加活动，连续访谈了法鲨德普加朵派派等一众明星。加朵的微博发过了，法鲨的现在还不让说，今天就说说《加勒比海盗5: 死无对证》上海全球首映活动上对
约翰尼德普
的访谈。
没错，这次在上海迪士尼乐园搞的首映礼不是全国首映，而是
全球首映
。这是好莱坞大片第一次在国内举行全球首映。我们也算是近距离见证了历史。
【关于首映】
巧的是，2003年《加勒比海盗1》的全球首映礼也是在迪士尼乐园。当然了，是在美国的迪士尼乐园。十四年了，变的是体重，不变的是对浪迹天涯纵横四海之不羁青春的向往。下面是
2003 vs 2017
对比图：
十四年了。物是人非。曾经的80后青年中医学生都长成了00后三俗萌妹子。
访谈时，我分别问巴博萨船长Geoffrey Rush和威尔特纳Orlando Bloom：又一次在迪士尼乐园做全球首映，而且是在中国上海，而且是在全球唯一一个加勒比海盗主题园区做首映，感觉怎样？
两人给我的回答都是：
Surreal.
我初见德普是在2015年加州的D23活动。当时圆润的德plus上台领奖，场下观众普遍表示：
你说他是谁？
而这次，德普不仅瘦回来了，而且比十四年前更酷了些。请看在红毯上走路带风的船长。
【关于剧情】
虽然已经看完全片，但因为不可以剧透，所以我能说的只有以下几点：
—前三部的味道。我们喜欢的杰克又回来了。
—笑料充足。断头台那场戏可以说是神来之笔。
—亦正亦邪的巴博萨展现了最人性最温柔的一面。
—萨拉查的复仇背后是捍卫尊严和荣耀。
—特纳家的传承。他们永远是系列的情感锚点。
(采访时我说的是emotional anchor and sanity of the franchise 导演听完问我: Can I quote that? )
—两个年轻演员，尤其是英版《皮囊》的帅妞Effy表现亮眼。
—结尾暖心小逆转。片尾彩蛋千万不要错过。
—哦对了，Beatles的保罗麦卡特尼打酱油演了个海盗。
【德普访谈】
这次访谈，德普给我留下了极深的印象。过去一直感觉他绝对是个忧郁不羁疯癫冷酷的人。没想到现实生活中的他极其亲和体贴又有耐心，非常会照顾别人的情绪。这两年我也采访过三四十位好莱坞明星了。从nice的角度来讲，德普可以排到前三名。
因为行程紧，首映活动德普只安排了一场20分钟的媒体圆桌采访。下面就是我照着录音材料听写出来的英文稿和翻译的中文版。
其实听写英文稿非常麻烦费时，而德普老师说话不太张嘴且吞音较多，所以一直拖到现在才弄完。
杰克船长和电脑特效版年轻杰克船长相比你选哪个
德普：
两个我都不喜欢。但如果非要我选的话，我选
20
岁版的自己，因为他年轻而愚蠢。
其实，我两个都不会选啦
。
I’m not a big fan of either. But I suppose if I have to choose one of me, maybe the 20-year-old one. Just because he’s young and dumb. Yeah, I choose neither, actually.
你的孩子是否看过你的加勒比海盗系列电影
德普：
看过，他们很小的时候看过。我记得某天我老朋友小罗伯特唐尼，我俩差不多是一起熬出头的，唐尼来我家吃午餐。我儿子杰克那时大概七八岁吧，他坐在唐尼身边，全身紧绷
[
模仿儿子紧张的动作
]
。因为他在跟钢铁侠吃午饭！我当时就
[
对他挥手
]
嘿
!
！老爸演了杰克船长！我在这儿呢！他根本不屌我
[
模仿儿子不屑的神情
]
。
我彻底被唐尼打败了
。
Yeah, they saw the films when they were really young. I remember one day Robert Downey who’s an old friend of mine, we sort of came up the ranks together. Bob Downey came over to my house for lunch. My boy Jack was probably about 7, 8. And he sat next to Downey at the table having lunch like this. Because he was having lunch with Ironman. I was like, hey! Dad, Captain Jack! Over here! He’s not impressed[meh]. Bob Downey blew me out of water.
注解：
[come up through the ranks]
to rise to a position of leadership by working up through the sequence of lower positions.
通过一步步向上的努力终于熬得出人头地
[blow someone out of water]
to destroy or defeat someone completely
彻底击败某人
关于经常造访儿童医院给孩子带去欢乐
德普：
我仍然觉得这事是个迷，但我的角色不知怎么就火了，广受观众
—
尤其是小朋友们
—
的喜爱，有意思的是他们年龄跨度还很广。我想要的是一种兔八哥式的
...
想要那种自由，那种只有卡通人物才会有的自由。我女儿
7
岁时生过重病，在医院住了几个礼拜。我以角色的身份多次造访医院，
愿望成真
基金会那种。我不管走到哪里，都把杰克船长装在箱子里随身携带。
如果你能让这些小病人们开怀大笑，你就能让他们忘记自身所遭受的苦痛
。你会在他们眼中看到无比的勇气，你会学到人生存在的意义，会直接明白人生中什么才是最重要的。而且我是一个陪伴女儿在医院度过三周的父亲。那是种悬而不决的痛苦。所以你会看到家长们在慢慢凋零。孩子们充满勇气和动力和热情和对生命的渴求。而家长们在逐渐枯萎。所以
如果我能让这些孩子和家长的脸上绽放出笑容，那么我会一直这样干下去
，直到他们把我丢出去为止。
It’s still a mystery to me, but the character caught on. And people seem to enjoy the character, kiddies especially. It was interesting that it was a wide age group. What I’m trying to do is approach the kind of Bug’s Bunny-ish…try to have that kind of freedom. The freedom you will have if you are a cartoon character. And so having a daughter…when she was seven years old, she got very ill and was in the hospital for a few weeks. I’ve done the hospital visits in character, Make A Wish things. I go everywhere with Captain Jack in a box. If you can make them laugh, you can make them forget what hardship they’re facing for any length of time. You see such courage in children’s eyes you’ll learn so much about existence and what’s really important directly. And also the thing that having been a parent living in a hospital for 3 weeks with my daughter. It was like suspended agony. So you see the parents dying. You see the kids have this courage and drive and passion and hunger and thirst for life. And you see the parents withering. So if I can bring a smile to these kiddies’ faces and the parents’ faces then I’ll keep doing it until they throw me out.
注解
：
Make A Wish：
为患有重病的儿童实现梦想的慈善组织。记得几年前我发过整个城市一起为小男孩实现超级英雄梦想，连市长都出动了的感人故事吗
?
那就是
Make A Wish
愿望成真基金会的活动之一。
对CG特效版的自己怎么看
德普：
很恶心啦。
[
全场大笑
]
这事让我发笑。现在我知道重焕青春是有可能的，而且我还想再拍这样的电影。
那样我就能永远
20
岁了！
未来的角色
...
现在我们可以做到，有能力做到。我可以跟亨弗莱鲍嘉一起拍电影。
我可以跟马龙白兰度再次合作
。如今的科技太高端了。他们做事的方法令人惊奇。但当你看到这种返老还童式的东西
…
不过我知道我很丑啦。我都三千岁那么老了。可是我的内心仍然感觉像个孩子。我只是模样看起来很糟糕罢了。
Gross.
It sort of made me laugh, in a way. And now I know that’s possible and I like to do another movie like this again. I’ll be forever 20.! Characters in the future…you can do it now. It’s capable now. I can do a film with Humphrey Bogart. I can do another film with Marlon. Technology is such a high standard now. But I thought it was amazing the way they did that. But yeah, I mean, you know, you’re sort of looking at this once youth sort of thing…But I know I’m ugly. I know I’m 3000 years old. But I still feel like a kid. I just look bad.
注解：
德普跟好友马龙白兰度曾几次合作，比如
1994
年的《天生爱情狂》，
1995
年的《神圣的痴迷》
(
未完成
)
，
1997
年的《英雄少年历险记》。
拍加勒比海盗系列遇到什么样的风险
德普：
杰瑞他
…
最开始谁都知道迪士尼担心到喘不过气。我甚至记得我告诉他们我理解，我明白，我理解他们的担忧。但你雇我来扮演这个角色啊，难道你没看过我之前演过的片子吗？如果没看过又为何要找我来呢？当时杰瑞给了我非常非常大的支持。幸好他有先见之明，力挺了我。戈尔导演也有先见之明。基本当时只有我们三个是这样。其他人全都不喜欢。
但我觉得冒险是很重要的
，因为如果你不尝试点还没被玩烂的新创意，如果你不尝试另一个角度那你就不能
…
我是说你就无法给一个角色，给一部有趣、超出预料、好玩、荒唐的电影增添任何东西。我加入时，最开始说这是要让全家人一起二刷三刷五刷的电影。而对于普通家庭
—
就说美国家庭吧
—
来讲，这一晚上要花不少银子，很多钱啊。所以从最初我们就在聊怎样为这些人、为观众量身定制一部电影。因为电影就是拍给观众看的，是观众雇佣了我们，
观众才是我们真正的老板，真正的雇主
。所以啦。
Jerry was…at the beginning it was no great secret that Disney was hyperventilating and worried. I even remember saying to them that I understand. I get it. I understand that you are worried. But you hired me to play a character. Have you seen anything I’ve done before? Why would you hire me if you didn’t? Jerry was a very, very great support at that time. He saw ahead of the curve, thankfully, and supported me. And Gore saw ahead of the curve as well. And it was just pretty much just the three of us. No one else liked it. But I think it’s important to take those risks because if you don’t try to do something that hasn’t been done to death. If you don’t try another angle then you can’t…I mean there’s nothing you can really add to a character, to a film that’s interesting, unexpected, funny, absurd, whatever. I really came into this one, the initial talks were really about families that went to see this film two times, three times, five times. And for your average family, let’s say, in the US, that’s a good chunk of change, a lot of money for a night out. So right from the be ginning we talked about how do we approach this where we can tailor make it for those people, the audience because it’s the audience that’s absolutely for. It’s the audience that really employ us. It’s the audience that’s really our bosses, our employers. So, yeah.
注解：
好莱坞金牌制作人
Jerry Bruckheimer
杰瑞布洛克海默。代表作有《壮志凌云》《绝地战警》《勇闯夺命岛》《空中监狱》《国家公敌》《珍珠港》《黑鹰坠落》《加勒比海盗》《国家宝藏》等
(
还有
CSI
等经典罪案剧
)
，总票房超过
100
亿美金。捧红了阿汤哥，德普，尼古拉斯凯奇，威尔史密斯等明星。
[a good chunk of change]
a lot of money 很多钱
分享趣事
德普：
在澳大利亚某家医院，我遇到一个小孩。我们提前一小时告知医院我们要去。因为不想引来媒体。他们有室内摄像机什么的。我和演
Scrum
的
Stephen Graham
一起穿着戏服造访医院，随身带着无数海盗金币，送给医院的小朋友做礼物。结果有个小男孩坐在一边，对此毫不感兴趣。
我走过去
[
用杰克船长的口音
]
说：
“
小子！我掏出一枚金币
…
你觉得帅不帅？
”
小男孩回答：
“
这是假的，金子是喷漆的。
”
我说
[
还是船长口音
]
：
“
你怎么知道呢？他说
: “
因为这是电影里的东西。是假的。我才不要呢。
”
于是我就把金币拿回来了。我用尽办法才让这孩子笑起来。
不过我觉得这是最棒的事情
。
“
是假的啦！是喷漆的金子啦！下一个！你给我走开啦！
”
In one hospital in Australia, there was a kid. We gave the hospital an hour’s note. We didn’t want any press or anything. They had their in-house cameras or whatever. Myself and Stephen Graham who plays Scrum. We went in costume. We brought tons of these gold pirates coins with us, just to give out to the kids. There was one of the kids sitting in the chair not really into it. I went over to him and: Boy! I pull a gold coin and I wanna…What do you think of that? And the kid goes, it’s fake and it’s spray painted gold. I said, how do you know? He said, because it’s from a movie. It’s fake. No, I don’t want that. Then I take it back. So I had to work on it to get a laugh out of him. But I thought it was the greatest thing, you know. It’s fake. It’s spray painted gold. Next. Get out of my face.
杰克船长这个角色的灵感来源，迪士尼对角色不太赞同吧
德普：
我觉得杰瑞做得比我多。迪士尼只会说：
他怕不是个疯子吧？怕不是个醉鬼吧？怕不是个同性恋吧？你这是干啥呢？
这都是啥动作啊
[
杰克船长举起双手在空中胡乱挥舞
]
？于是我说：我演过的所有角色都是同性恋呀
[
全场大笑
]
。
[
小声说
]
其实不是啦。主要是杰瑞去跟迪士尼沟通。这角色对我来说，看到剧本时我脑海中就有了图像。我想到的是三四百年前的海盗。在我的想象中，他们都是摇滚明星，摇滚明星坏小子们。因为在他们真正到达一个地方之前几个月甚至几年，关于他们的神秘故事就提前传到了。所以有点像夜魔人的感觉。但同时他们又因为干的坏事而臭名昭著、恶名远扬。就像巡演的摇滚明星一样。人们都熟悉他们的音乐，他们的故事，他们的
...
摇滚明星啊
…
唯一该成为海盗的摇滚明星就是
Keith Richards
。我的角色是建立在他身上的。还有个卡通角色叫
Pepe Le Pew
，是个臭鼬。他爱上一只猫，总想让猫也爱上他。但猫讨厌他，远离他。他却总是引以为容，以为她其实爱他，只是在装傻而已。所以这两个都是原材料。来点
Keith Richards
，再来点
Pepe Le Pew
。这里来点这个，那里来点那个。
不过最重要的两个原型就是
Keith Richards
和
Pepe Le Pew
。
I think Jerry had to do a lot more than I do. They didn’t know what to say to me other than, It’s he insane? It’s he drunk? Is he gay? What are you doing? What is all these? Then I just said all my characters are gay. [Whispers]They’re not. Jerry has to deal with Disney far more than I do. The character for me was when I read the scripts I got the images. I thought of pirates back…4 hundred years ago, 3 hundred years ago, whatever. I thought in a way they were the rock and roll stars, the bad boy rock and roll stars because the myth of a pirate would arrive months maybe years before the ever got to that place. So there was this kind of boogeyman quality to it. But at the same time, they were sort of like notorious and infamous for bad deeds, let’s say. So it’s like a rock and roll star being on tour. Those people, they are familiar with the music, they are familiar with the stories; they are familiar with the…A rock and roll star that…The only rock and roll star is really really probably should be a pirate is Keith Richards. I base the character on Keith. And there is a cartoon character called Pepe Le Pew. He’s a skunk. And he sort of thinks this cat that he’s in love with…He’s always trying to make this cat love him. And she hates him. She runs away from him. But he’s always very proud about it. He thinks she’s in love with him. She’s playing coy. So it was kind of ingredients. Here’s some from Keith Richards and here’s some Pepe Le Pew. Here’s a bit of this. And here’s a bit of that. But the two main ingredients were Keith and this skunk, Pepe Le Pew.
注释：
Keith Richards
，著名摇滚明星，滚石乐队成员，在《加勒比海盗》系列中扮演过杰克他爸。
是否从小就喜欢海盗
德普：
对，喜欢。我从小就喜欢海盗。很爱海盗。不过我小时候更喜欢看更黑暗的电影。
Yeah, I did. I love pirates when I was a kid. I love it. But yeah, you know, I was always fascinated with darker movies when I was a child.
看自己电影时是否想成为海盗
德普：
看电影时是否想成为海盗？看电影的时候我就是海盗啊。
Do I want to be pirate when I watch the film? I am a pirate when I watch the film.
关于对普通生活的向往
德普：
这事马龙白兰度说得最好。他说演戏啊
…
演戏对于成年人是种奇怪的工作
。确实是这样。本质上你是在操纵事实来谋生。倒不是说你在撒谎，但你在操纵事实来赚钱。所以这就有点
…
很早以前，我就失去了在大街上随便行走的能力。所以我觉得，到了一定阶段，
你就很难拥有简简单单和真正的生活了
。不能上街，不能去商店，不能四处溜达，这都让我感觉很奇怪。倒不是因为
...
我从来都不是最爱社交的人。但把日子过得像逃犯一样还是很怪异的。像是被人追猎一样。所以简单就是你感觉自己应得的那一口深呼吸。那个虚无的时刻是你应得的。
So, the thing is, Marlon Brando put it the best when he said that acting…He described acting as a strange job for a grown man. And it is. It’s essentially, you are manipulating the truth for a living. It’s not to say that you are lying. But you’re manipulating the truth for a living. So it’s kind of…you know, the ability to walk down the street left a long time ago for me. So I suppose what happens is simplicity and real life become very difficult things to obtain at a certain point. It’s still strange to me to not be able to just go out in the street, go to a store, walk around. Not that I…I’ve never been a biggest social animal. For sure. But it is an odd life to live in a weird way like a fugitive. You know, like being hunted. So simplicity is that deep breath that you feel you’ve earned. You earn that moment of nothingness.
海上冤魂千千万，杰克船长惹一半。杰克船长为何总去招惹坏人?
德普：
我觉得他总是闯进困境之中。他做事之前不太走脑子的。他看见什么要什么，就拿什么。他是靠本能生活的，从某种程度上跟狗差不多。我要睡觉。我要吃饭。我要喝酒。他不是那种寻求救赎或者对自己的精神存在有深刻思考的角色。
我认为他就是『本我』。他是『爬虫脑』的核心。或者可以说，他不是个人，就是个东西
。
I think he just jumps into situations. I don’t think he gives a great amount of thought first. He just sees, wants, takes. I think his instincts are much like a dog in a way. I wanna sleep. I wanna eat. I wanna drink. He’s not like a character looking for redemption or thinking deep thoughts about his spiritual being. I think he’s just a kind of…He’s the Id. He’s the very center of the reptilian brain. He’s just a kind of a thing, if you will.
注解：
[Id]
本我。弗洛伊德提出的本我
Id
自我
Ego
超我
Super-Ego
。本我是人最为原始的、属满足本能冲动的欲望。
[reptilian brain]
爬虫脑。是大脑中最古老的部分，负责最基本的活动。
观众随着海盗系列而长大，那杰克船长是否会长大
德普：
我觉得他不会长大
。我觉得他不会学乖。我觉得他永远不会改变。他就永远那样了。而我很喜欢这样的选择。因为通常人们审视一个角色时会想要找到角色弧线。而在任何时刻，杰克的
角色弧线
都处于不会往任何方向发展的状态。
I don’t think he grows up. I don’t think he learns. I don’t think he ever changes. I think he’s always just going to be that. And I really like that as a choice. Because very often when people look into a character and they’re trying to find that what they call the character arc. And I think every moment Jack is at the character’s arc that doesn’t go anywhere.
注解
:
[character arc]
角色的发展方向，发展历程，发展轨迹。因为通常的角色都会随着剧情发展而改变，所以会有像
arc
弧线一样的改变轨迹。而杰克船长根本没有，导演在另一场圆桌也调侃过这事：杰克船长的角色
arc
就是
…
呃
…
一条平平的直线。
杰克船长对你本人有什么影响
德普：
我想过这事。真相是，很不幸，或者很幸运，我也不知道，杰克他永远都会是我的一部分。他是我能接触的一部分。
我演过的所有角色都在我身体里面
。这事我说过的。就好像是一柜子抽屉。他一直都在这里。
[
他做出在胸前拉开抽屉的动作。而且每说到一个角色，他就会模仿该角色的口音，所以之前发的那段音频里在场的大家都被逗得不行
]
那里是剪刀手爱德华！
[
拉开另一个抽屉
]
这边是杰克船长！
[
另一个抽屉
]
疯帽子在那边！
[
又拉开一个抽屉
]
还有威利旺卡！我觉得这样对大脑特别不健康。但我就这样了，他永远不会离开我。
如果杰克船长真要有个结局的话，我唯一能想到的就是看他朝着无法到达的海天交界继续航行
。他会继续漂泊。就算故事都没了，你也会想起他这个角色。如果你熟悉这个角色，你就可以想象他做任何事情。我很高兴我找到了他。也许他是个疯子，但他永远会在我心里。
I have thought about it. The truth of the matter is unfortunately, well, maybe it’s fortunate. I don’t know what it is. He’s always gonna be a part of me. I mean, he always was a part of me. A part that I can access. You know, all the characters I played are still in there. I’ve explained this before. It’s almost like a chest of drawers. He’s always been there. And there’s Edward! And Jack’s over here. And Mad Hatter is over there. And you’ve got Willy Wonka. I don’t think it’s healthy for the brain. But that’s what I got. So he’ll never leave me. And I think if there is an end to Captain Jack, I think the only thing that I can see is him just continuing toward the unattainable horizon. He just continues on. And if the stories go away, I think he’s a character that you can think about. And picture him doing anything if you know the character well. I’m glad that I found him in there. But he’s maybe insane. He’ll always be in here.
有人问德普想要合作的中国导演是哪位
德普：
中国导演啊...其实是这样，是这么回事。我不看电影的。从不看电影。美国电影欧洲电影都不看，只看纪录片。我自己拍的电影就更不堪了。可能被迫看过一两次。不过我喜欢保持无知的状态。就是说我喜欢对别人做的事毫不知情，对别人干的工作毫不知情，对别人都是谁毫不知情，对别人毫不知情。我喜欢处在这样纯粹的状态中，只是去做我的工作。不过我敢肯定，中国到处都是优秀的人才。我跟周润发合作过，非常愉快。还见过两次巩俐。但是，我不是个常看电影的人。
Chinese directors…Here’s the thing. Here’s the deal. I don’t watch movies. I don’t watch any movie. I don’t watch American movies. I don’t watch European films. I watch documentaries. I certainly don’t watch my films. I mean, once or twice, I had to watch, but…I sort of prefer to stay in the land of the ignorant. That is to say that I like not knowing what anyone else is doing. I like not knowing what work they’re doing. I like not knowing who anybody is. I like not knowing anything about them. I prefer to stay in the purest state, the purest form that I can, just to do my work. But I’m sure this…I mean, this country is rife with amazing talents. I worked with Chow Yun Fat. That was quite an amazing experience. And Gong Li I’ve met twice. But yeah, I’m just not a movie guy.
