袁小珊：
我记得在您的一次演讲中吗，您谈到女性更可能陷入极端的贫困。您也曾在非营利组织工作，去帮助非洲女性获取工作技能，您能就这一点分享一下您的看法和经验吗？
I remember in one of your presentation, you have mentioned that woman are more likely living in extreme poverty. And you also work with many non-profit organizations, try to help African women to get working skills. Do you want to share something about that?
普姆齐莱•姆兰博-努卡：
在这个世界上，贫困人群中还有很大一部分是女性。我们甚至可以说贫穷长着一张女性的脸。不管是在中国，还是在其他地方都是一样的。所以说，想要消除贫困，就必须要开展一些针对于女性的项目。比如说，有些女性可能碍于孩子，不能参加，因此对于那些有孩子的女性，让她们学习的同时，还要能提供一些辅助的儿童托管项目。在许多国家，我们要考虑到当地的女性可能文化水平不高。
Yes. I mean we still live in a world where the majority of poor people are women. We even say that poverty has the face of a woman, the same in china. It's the same all over the world. So if you're fighting poverty, you have to have a program that is dedicated to women. If you just do it just in general, you may miss the women in between. For instance, if you consider that sometimes women will struggle to go and be part of a program because of children. You have to think about how you could facilitate child care in the process of training the women. we have to consider also that in many countries, the women are the ones who do not have very high education.
所以在引进项目时，必须从最基础的课程开始。但是，女性同样也很有抱负心，所以当你通过各种项目来帮助她们的时候，还要告诉她们要冲着最高的目标来努力，因为她们有能力去成功。如果要消除女性贫困，我们也必须认识到当女性有了家庭，他们就不得不考虑家庭的事务。所以要有办法让她们能同时处理多方面的事务，这是很困难的。但女性也是很坚强的，即使面对这些困境，她们也能做好，能成功。
So when you introduce the program, you must also try and invest in excellent rating education starting from basic literacy in some cases, but also women are very ambitious. You must also aim for women to reach the very top, uh, because women have that capacity and the appetite to accept. And if you're doing with poverty against women, we must also consider the fact that when women already have families, they cannot absent themselves from their families. So it should be delivered in such a way that she's able to multi-task to do both, which makes it the harder. But women are so determined, they actually make it work even under these difficult situations. And they succeed.
袁小珊：
您提到不同的国家在性别不平等这个议题上面临着相同的挑战，但我觉得挑战可能有所差别，因为与欧美的女性相比，亚洲女性可能更多地受到传统文化的影响，因此对女性权利和权利的保护没有那么敏感。
You mentioned that different country face same challenges in terms of the gender equity. But I think the situation may be quite different, because compare with the woman in Europe and America, Asian woman kind of be unconsciously influenced by our traditional cultures or the historical remaining, we are not very sensitive about our rights, and rights protections before.
普姆齐莱•姆兰博-努卡：
即使各个国家的文化不同，全世界女性面临这相同的境遇。在家庭暴力中，女性都受到了伤害，无论她来自哪个国家，痛苦都是相似的。
You know, even though the context of different countries and the cultures are different, it is remarkably universal what women experience in different parts of the world. If you talk about violence against women and domestic violence, it is a woman being beaten up. It doesn't matter what country they come from. The pain is the same.
所以即使在某些国家，人们容忍这种行为，但女性还是面临着相同的危险。所以我们的干预必须是经过深思熟虑的。
So whatever the reason in the culture, maybe for people to tolerate that, the danger that the woman faces is the same. So our intervention has to be just as deliberate.
例如女性在政策决策上的代表性不足，世界上没有一个国家实现了女性在政治、经济上充分的代表性，即使在一些女性受到高等教育的国家也是这样，这意味着有能力成为领导的女性可能不能获得更好的机会。
If you're talking about under representation of women in decision making, there isn't a single country in the world in which women adequately represented in politics, in the economy, even in countries where women performing very well in university, which means that there is a pipeline of women can be leaders who are not being a considered.
因此这种刻板印象让歧视女性变得非常普遍，最终结果是女性被排除在上升通道之外。
So the stereotypes and the norms, that's make it possible to discriminates against women are actually very common. The end result is the exclusion of women.
由于这些普遍存在的歧视，我们的工作是能够在不同国家以一种相似的方式开展的，但每个国家的人以符合当地习惯的方式去推进工作也是很重要的。这就是为什么无论我们在哪里开展工作，我们需要一些当地的合作伙伴来帮助我们融入当地的环境。
