©Ohlsson/Dit-Cilinn
来自瑞典、云游世界各地的艺术组合OHLSSON/DIT-CILINN和我于2011-2013年共同在加州读研时不经意间成为了邻居，在那之后，我便和这对维京小伙伴结下了不解之缘。他们似乎一直保持着一种类似于古代人/僧侣的生活状态——常年不使用手机、市内交通基本上都依靠步行、从不买新衣服，也鲜有因物质欲望引起的焦虑。然而，他们又是最为与时代连通的。虽然不用智能手机，但他们回复邮件的效率极高，图片博客“Thin The Herd”不间断地更新了许多年，网页版的社交软件也作为保持友谊和寻找资料的方式有序地使用着。他们的猫Bon Bon随他们走遍了世界，据他们说，从未造访过中国的原因是这里的驻地项目不接受艺术家带猫一同前往。
他们的作品既古老又未来，类似远古宗教的仪式和无人机在一间类似太空舱的空间中形成互动；电击器、废弃的超市购物车与火山灰景观盆形成诡异的视觉诗文。在我看来，他们在进行边界解除的尝试。这边界可以位于物质与精神、过去与未来、真实与虚幻、经验与超验、短暂与永恒之间，也可以位于任何意识所及的其他因素之间。在这样一个环境处处收紧、监控无处不在的时刻，着眼于边界解除的艺术让人感到仍有不息的生命力源源涌入。
Imprint，Performance with drone，2016
©Ohlsson/Dit-Cilinn
展览Clearing the Clouds Born of Stagnant Self-Hypnotism
©Ohlsson/Dit-Cilinn
文心：最近的生活怎样？在工作和生活之间的平衡找得好吗？
OHLSSON/DIT-CILINN：过去一年的工作密度相当大。有时候会觉得一连数月来我们的所有对话都围绕着工作。在大多数时候，我们让这二者结合在一起，比如去到一个美丽的海滩然后研究粘土海岸、收集材料。观察与整理早已深深嵌于我们的意识里，所以在做的时候甚至都不用思考。有的时候彻底关闭工作模式也是必要的。每个夏天，我们都会去瑞典的Dalarna，然后整周都完全没有创作欲。
©Ohlsson/Dit-Cilinn
文心：可以和我说说你们的长期图片博客“Thin The Herd”吗？对我来说，它似乎是处于对地点与材料的记录、旅行札记以及表演作品之间的一种存在。
OHLSSON/DIT-CILINN：你描述得很好。“Thin The Herd”是一种快速使用图片进行工作的方式。从我们开始这个博客起，其中的图片越来越趋向于关注植物与城市景观之间奇怪的、感官的相遇。我们专注于挖掘身边的民间传说并去创作尽可能最具魔力的现实。拍摄照片可以对此产生帮助。“Thin The Herd”探寻一种未经加工的快照气息，并同我们的雕塑作品一样，注重物质性。
©Ohlsson/Dit-Cilinn
Tumblr很棒，因为从策展的角度上说，它是一个“无主之地”。它是一个不被等级与流派限定的地方。一些最好的博客以强有力又具有启示性的方式展示了生命的美丽与残酷。从某些方面来说，“Thin The Herd”是一次练习——我们将所学关于艺术与摄影的意义全都抛诸一边，转而仅仅去探索对我们来说真正有吸引力与挑战性的事物。
©Ohlsson/Dit-Cilinn
文心：你对这个充满了科技、媒体、监控与网络成瘾的时代作何想法？在你的作品中是如何反映这些的呢？
OHLSSON/DIT-CILINN：这让人兴奋又恐惧！许多科幻概念已经成为了现实。在我们最喜欢的叙事中，科学会帮助搭建一个平台，让消除界限的体验成为可能——超验的技术。也许更为紧迫的是，我们想要找到可以探索技术与生态交汇处的新方法。我们对这个星球的小小贡献便是为它的相互联通性（interconnectivity）进行了视觉词汇上的扩充。有一点对我们很重要，那就是不要去制造一个乌托邦宣传手册，而是将毁灭与压抑也纳入进来。
©Ohlsson/Dit-Cilinn
文心：你们常常在作品中将似乎是相互对立的元素进行综合，比如城市生活与乌托邦、人类文明与自然、未来与原始、致幻的与日常的。你是如何寻找到处理它们之间紧张关系的方法的？
OHLSSON/DIT-CILINN：我们常常在不同极性之间的紧张关系中发现最为美丽与灵性的力量。相比起中和对立面，我们用它们来激发火花——从而创造触发性的时刻。那样的时刻就像是心灵中的某些密室被打开。这有点像突然明白一个笑话的过程——你面对着一个看似荒诞的东西但一秒钟后你便发现了它有趣的逻辑。幽默与美是越过心灵的边界管制的有效方法。
©Ohlsson/Dit-Cilinn
文心：可以与我分享一下你们对万物有灵论和灵性的看法吗？
OHLSSON/DIT-CILINN：研究灵性是一件非常棘手的事情——那么多的动机与符号，让人感到空洞又陈腐。再者，寻找到反映灵性的语言往往更难。即便如此，我们的许多艺术作品仍反映着某种灵性的旅程。我们尽己所能不去让人感觉像是觉悟者，而是两个捕捉到了一丝永恒的香气并寻求方法将它浸入生活之中的人。我们在虚荣与简单之间走着钢丝，但这也是乐趣的所在之一。
我们从几年前便开始探索万物有灵论。将人格注入“物”中让我们得以移情并与景观进行连接——不论是河流与石头，还是城市景观或者虚拟景观。将高速公路和手机看作具知觉的有机体需要在意识上做挺大的转变。随着科技的持续进步，万物有灵论也许是建立整体模型的有用工具。
（灵性确实开始得到更多关注了。就连政府雇员都开始学习冥想与静观了。万物有灵的领域也同时正在由蒂姆·莫顿等为首的人进行更多研究。这是好消息！）
©Ohlsson/Dit-Cilinn
文心：你认为亚文化与艺术之间的差异是什么？或者，它们之间有差异吗？
OHLSSON/DIT-CILINN：不清楚，有时它们的边界非常流动。当然，亚文化可以被看作一种表演艺术；艺术也可以被看作一种亚文化。最近纯净主义似乎不再那么为人所关注。在一个播放列表中同时欣赏工业、R&B和世界音乐也很正常。像是黑金属与新世纪音乐，虽然它们曾显得如此不同，但整体来看仍有诸多共性。我们在几年前曾制作了一个视频，对比了Burzum和SheilaChandra的审美。它们融合得相当好。当然，也有只喜欢某一种事物的狂热信徒存在。
在我们的青少年时期，我们在瑞典常去一些音乐节，那是展示亚文化的极佳平台。它们就像是一个个展现夸张发型、服饰以及标语的部落聚会。去音乐节意味着成人礼，人们常常在那里首次尝试药物与性经验。我们都有过关于被尿浸湿的帐篷、斯堪的纳维亚夏日的极长白昼和在演唱会人群中走失的美妙经历。沉浸在青少年与音乐文化中，那是最强烈、有趣又精疲力竭的经历。令人悲伤的是，那些音乐节都已经倒闭了。
©Ohlsson/Dit-Cilinn
文心：对你们来说，旅行是生活的重要部分吗？旅行和驻地是如何影响你们的艺术实践的？
OHLSSON/DIT-CILINN：旅行是我们的心头所爱。也是出于一种经济上的必要——我们需要逐资助而居。人际上，苦乐参半。我们在全世界结交了许多朋友，却不能与他们长期面对面相处。我们的所在地与作品的生成是一体的，因为我们总是在地收集材料。脱离生活的基本状态之后，你被赋予了在所有情境和物体之中寻得奇怪与有吸引力的事物的机会。一个对于当地人来说不甚有趣的植物或者物件对于某个未曾见过它们的人来说，却可能成为一种启示。旅行给你一双新鲜的眼睛。这从某种程度上说是相当有致幻效果的。我们很幸运地参加过一些驻地项目。它们为艺术家们在创作和相互连接上提供了很大的帮助。有的时候驻地会让人有一种身处真人秀之中的感觉，但根本上，驻地为艺术家提供了稳定性并提供了一种看世界的方式。
©Ohlsson/Dit-Cilinn
文心：你们可以为我们推荐一些东西吗？
OHLSSON/DIT-CILINN：Gyrus所著的《Archaeologies of Consciousness》（意识的考古学）。那本书让我们获得了大量关于女神崇拜的知识，其中大量经验证的主观经验可以作为一种真诚的研究样本。Gyrus同时运营dreamflesh.com，去看一下，里面有非常有价值的关于灵性、身体社会、生态学以及所有它们之间的事物的思考。
另外，夏天是吃华夫饼的季节！这是我们最喜欢的华夫饼做法：
2-3根刨碎的胡萝卜
250毫升燕麦乳（或者以任何其他乳类代替）
200毫升面粉
一茶匙小苏打粉
一茶匙新刨好的黄姜（tumeric）
酌情加盐
搅拌面粉、小苏打粉和燕麦乳直至不再有块状物。加盐和胡萝卜然后尝一下，应该有些咸鲜味。然后按照正常华夫饼的做法制作。
在做好的华夫饼上抹越橘果酱（Lingonberry Jam），然后放上切片的牛油果并淋上柠檬汁，然后加一点儿盐/酱油和芥末。
Bon Bon
©Ohlsson/Dit-Cilinn
关于OHLSSON/DIT-CILINN
组合由David Ohlsson（b.1985，SWE）和Dit-Cilinn（b.1983，SWE / TH）组成
他们自2007年以来合作至今。曾获得Bonniers基金会奖，SOMArts奖和Barclay Simpson奖。
艺术家网站：www.ohl-dc.com
Thin The Herd：www.thintheherd.tumblr.com
关于作者
张文心，于1989年出生于安徽合肥，现工作生活于中美两地，她于2013年获得美国加州艺术学院纯艺术硕士学位。张文心的作品探讨现实与虚构的界限，以多种叙事手法创建章节式的视觉小说。张文心曾获得徕卡新人奖和三影堂摄影奖提名，并获得马格南Atlantic Philanthropies项目奖金，并曾在旧金山瑞柯摄影中心和伍德斯托克摄影中心驻地。
©Ohlsson/Dit-Cilinn
Interview questions to OHLSSON/DIT-CILINN
ZHANG Wenxin：What has your life been like recently? Is it a good balance between life and work?
OHLSSON/DIT-CILINN：This past year has been really dense workwise.Sometimes it feels like we go months without having conversations that isn’t work related. Mostly though, we combine the two. Like going to a beautiful beach to study clay shores and gather material. Observing and arranging is so engrained in our consciousness that we do it without thinking. But it isnecessary to switch off completely sometimes. Every summer we go to Dalarna in Sweden and don’t have a single creative impulse for a week.
ZHANG Wenxin：Can youtell me something about "Thin The Herd”, your long-term photo blog? Forme, it seems to stand between a documentation of places and materials, a travellog, and a performance piece.
OHLSSON/DIT-CILINN：That is very well put. Thin the herd is a way of working with images in a very immediate way. Since we started TTH the image flow has become more focused on the strange and sensuous meeting of plant lifeand the urban landscape. We aim to tap into the folklore of our surroundings and create the most magical reality available. Taking pictures helps with that.TTH explores a raw snapshot-like vibe and like our sculptures highlights materiality.
Tumblr was great because it was a curatorial no-man’s-land. A place where hierarchies and genreswere not applied. The best blogs showed the beauty and brutality of life in a potent and revelatory mix. In some ways Thin the herd is a practice to unlearn what art and photography is supposed to be and just discovering what is actually compelling and challenging to us.
ZHANG Wenxin：What doyou think about this age of tech, media, surveillance and Internet addiction?How do you reflect it in your work?
OHLSSON/DIT-CILINN：It’s exciting and terrifying! Many Sci-Ficoncepts are now becoming reality. In our favorite narrative science will fuela platform for boundary dissolving experiences. A technology of transcendence. Perhaps more urgently, we aim to find new ways of looking at the intersection of technology and ecology. Our small contribution to the planet is adding to thevisual vocabulary of interconnectivity. It is important for us though, not tomake a utopian brochure but to portray destruction and oppression as well.
ZHANG Wenxin：You often integrate rather contradictory elements into your work, like urban life andutopia; culture and nature, the futuristic and the primeval, the psychedelic and the mundane. How do you find the way to deal with the tensions among them?
OHLSSON/DIT-CILINN：In the tension between polarities we tend tofind the most beauty and spiritual potency. Rather than diffusing opposites weuse them to strike sparks – to create triggering moments. In moments like thosehidden chambers of the psyche open up. It is a like getting a joke – you arefaced with something absurd but after a second you discover it’s amusing logic.Humor and beauty are effective ways to slip past the border controls of the mind.
ZHANG Wenxin：Can you share with me your view about animism and spirituality?
OHLSSON/DIT-CILINN：Working with the spiritual is tricky -so many motives and symbols feel hollow and trite. And finding the words to reflect upon it is sometimes even harder. That said, much of our art reflects some kind of spiritual journey. We do our best not come across as enlightened beings but as people who caught a whiff of the eternal perfume and looking for ways ofinfusing into our lives. We walk the tightrope between pretension and the simplistic. But that’s part of the fun.
Animism is something we began to explore a few years ago. To imbue personhood on ‘things’ allowed us to empathize and connect with the landscape -rivers and rocks as well as the urban and virtual landscape. It is quite a shift in consciousness to view freeways and cellphonesas sentient organisms. As technology continues to evolve Animism maybe a useful model to make sense of it all.
(The spiritual is definitely gaining interest.Even government employees are learning about meditationand mindfulness now. Championed by the likes of Timothy Mortonanimistic territory is also being explored. Good news!)
ZHANG Wenxin：What do you think is the difference between subculture and art? Or do you think they are different?
OHLSSON/DIT-CILINN：Not sure, sometimes theborders seem very fluent. Certainly subculture can be a kind of performance art. And art in return is a kind of subculture. Lately puritanism seems to beless of a concern. It is not uncommon to enjoy Industrial, R&B and World Music in thesame playlist. Things that use to seem so different like Black Metal and New Age music have, in retrospect, a lot in common. We made a video comparing the aesthetics of Burzum and Sheila Chandra some years ago. They blend very well.There are of course hardcore devotes that are really into this one thing.
The music festivals wevisited as teenagers in Sweden were a great display of subcultures. It was likea tribal meeting with extravagant hairstyles, clothing and slogans. Going to afestival was a coming of age ritual where people had their first drug andsexual experiences. We both have wonderful memories of piss-drenched tents, theendless days of Scandinavian summer and getting lost in the concert crowds. Interms of being immersed in youth and music culture it was the most intense, funand draining. Sadly those festivals went out of business.
ZHANG Wenxin：Istraveling an important part in your life? How do traveling and residencies influence your practice?
OHLSSON/DIT-CILINN：Traveling is very dear to us. It has also been a financial necessity – we have to go where there isfunding. Socially, it is bitter sweet. We have met many friends around the world that we don’t get to spend time with. At least not in person. Our locality isintegral to how our work turns out as we often gather material on site. Being out of your element also lends an opportunity to find the strange and compelling in everyday situations and objects. A plant or random object that might not register to a local can be a revelation to someone that has not seenit before. Travelling gives you beginner’s eyes. It is quite psychedelic in away. We have been fortunate to participate in a few residencies. They are agreat service for artists to make work and connect with each other. At times itcan feel like being in a reality show but ultimately residencies provide stability and a way for artists to see the world.
ZHANG Wenxin：Can you recommend some stuff to us?
OHLSSON/DIT-CILINN：Archaeologies of Consciousness by Gyrus. That book gave us a huge download on Goddess worship and validated subjective experience as a genuine research model. Gyrus also runs dreamflesh.com, check it out for valuable insights on psyche / bodysociety / ecology and everything in between.
Also
Summer is Waffle season! This is our favorite way of making them
2-4 gratedcarrots
2.5 dl of oat milk (or whatever kind you prefer)
2 dl of wheat flour
1 teaspoon baking soda
1 teaspoon fresh grated tumeric
Salt to your liking
Whip flour, baking soda and oat milk until it is lump-free. Add salt andcarrots and tumeric and taste it – should be a bit savory. Cook as regular waffles.
Serve with Lingonberry jam and sliced avocados douzed with lemon juice, a bit of salt/soy and horseradish.
