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外媒称《流浪地球2》太“民族主义”,《科幻世界》主编这样回应……

科幻世界SFW  · 公众号  · 科幻  · 2023-02-10 19:08

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《流浪地球2》的票房已经突破35亿。

这部被称为“硬核科幻”的电影,早在策划阶段就引发众多关注,登上银幕以来更是多次霸屏热搜榜。其中展现的诸如太空电梯、行星发动机、地下城市等技术也成为坊间热议的话题。


在一片热议中,有个期刊经常被人提起,那就是《科幻世界》。可以说,这里是小说《流浪地球》作者刘慈欣的发祥地与大本营。

早在2000年,《流浪地球》小说首发于这家期刊;2006年,后来奠定科幻丰碑的《三体》开始在这里连载;刘慈欣的其它作品,比如《诗云》、《乡村教师》、《全频带阻塞干扰》等等,也都是先在《科幻世界》上发表,最后才独立成书。


今年《流浪地球2》热映,科幻世界杂志社也首次作为影片联合出品方参与投资。双语君(微信ID:Chinadaily_Mobile)专访到杂志主编拉兹先生,一起对科幻的一些问题进行了探讨。

 Q 

最近几年似乎科幻成了挺热门的一个话题,我们昨天在饭馆里,背后一桌上还有人争论太空电梯究竟能不能实现。记得十几年前我们刚接触科幻时,还挺小众的,怎么就突然这么热呢?

 A 

科幻是有一定门槛的。科幻文化兴起和工业革命的发展密切相关,本质上是一种城市文明。在农耕文明时代、经济发展不够好的时代,大家对科幻是没有这种迫切需求的;一定是在人的物质生活和科技发展到了一定程度之后,在精神层面上对未来有了一些思考,才会产生对科幻的需求。

It takes some time to usher in the era of science fiction. The rise of sci-fi culture is closely related to the development of the industrial revolution, as it is essentially an urban civilization.

In the era of agrarian civilization, when economic development was not advanced enough, people lacked such an urgent need for science fiction. It is only when people's material life and technological development have reached a certain level that they begin to have thoughts about the future on a spiritual level and the demand for science fiction arises.

随着中国科技发展和城市化的进程,科幻的产业化其实是一个水到渠成的过程,因为作家和受众的知识储备都有了支撑,我们的科幻才能被广泛接受。反过来说,科幻的发展、科幻产品的流行,也能够提高公众的科学素质与科学兴趣,因为科幻还是以科学为基础的。《流浪地球2》出来之后,行星发动机、矿石的燃烧、行星关系、地月引力、洛希极限等,这一系列知识都会带来巨大的科学普及作用。

 Q 

科幻确实以科学为基础,但科幻也有大量脑洞,比如有不少科研人指出行星发动机、太空电梯没那么容易实现。你们是如何平衡科学与脑洞的呢?

 A 
 
科幻中的幻想部分占相当大的比重,指的不仅是目前无法实现的、而且是短期内无法实现的技术。只是我们认为在某种条件下,或者在某种技术或者未来技术发展的情况下,它才能够实现的。

Fantasy has an indispensable role to play in science fiction. It refers to technology that is not only unattainable at the moment, but also unattainable in the near future. This "imagined technology" can only be realized under certain conditions, or under certain technologies or future technological developments.


比如刚才提到的太空电梯,从概念提出到现在也过去了几十年,它之所以没有成功,一方面是新材料、工程施工方面的问题,更多可能也有科技之外的一些问题,比如经济效益、环保性或者安全性的思考。这样我们就可以把太空电梯作为一个科幻概念放在故事里面去,成为故事的背景也好、发生地也好,造成新奇性,同时能够把很多的关于未来的想象予以展开。

The space elevator mentioned earlier has been conceptualized for decades but has not been realized due to a lack of new materials and engineering capabilities, as well as low economic efficiency, environmental protection, and safety conditions. In this case, we can put the space elevator as a fictional concept in the story and let it be the background or the place where the story takes place. This not only adds novelty to the story, but also expands our imagination for what is possible in the future.

么一个发生场景不光会让科幻小说有视觉奇观,也能够带来一些故事情节上的冲突极致化。比如在《流浪地球2》里,如果不是以太空电梯,而是飞船这样的传统运输方式来的话,很多的震撼性就无法实现了;数字生命也类似,现在不好实现,但在其有了实现可能的时代背景里,冲突就比较明显。

 Q 

要实现这些特效,应当需要挺大的一个团队?那如何调动资源的同时,又保持原著的原汁原味呢?

 A 

科幻小说的一个特点是背景特别宏大。比如刘慈欣很多作品都是星际尺度的故事,他只选择其中的一个截面进行描写。《流浪地球2》也是在漫长的两千多年的历史中的一个片段。它展示给我们的除了这个片段的精彩故事外,也有这些宏大的背景。

A characteristic of science fiction is that the setting is particularly grand. For example, many of Liu Cixin's works are interstellar-scale stories, of which he chooses only one aspect to depict. The Wandering Earth 2 is also a fragment in a long history of more than 2,000 years. It shows us not only the wonderful story of this fragment, but also refers to this grand backstory.


《流浪地球2》这部电影之所以能够引发包括原著爱好者在内的大量共鸣,一个核心点在于抓住了世界观的精髓:当人类面对太空级别的、宇宙级别的灾难的时候,人类能做出什么选择?人类的大无畏精神何在?又能实现哪些技术奇迹?在这一点上,电影继承原著的精髓和核心,用视觉的形式和更加丰富细节的故事呈现出来,这点让我非常感动。这也是值得很多改编者借鉴的地方,电影依托的其实是核心的科幻本质精神,而不只是其中某一个技术点。电影和我们科幻小说的创作有相通之处,都要有极强的逻辑性和内在的自洽性,切不可游离于大背景之外。

A major reason for The Wandering Earth 2, resonating with all audiences, is that it asks important questions. What choices can human beings make when faced with a space-level or even a cosmos-level disaster? How fearless is mankind? What technological miracles can be achieved? In this regard, the film maintains the essence and core ideals of the original book and presents it in a visual form with a more detailed story, which moved me very much.

This is also something many adaptors can learn from. The movie is based on the core spirit of science fiction, not just one technical point. Movies and science fiction novels have something in common — both must have a strong logic and internal self-consistency, and must be developed in line with the setting.

 Q 

那么科幻电影和小说的区别在哪里?

 A 

小说更多是单纯创作,有大量的留白空间可以供人想象,作者可以进行文字描写,每一位读者眼中都有一个不同的世界,面对的受众也以科幻迷为主。电影就不一样了,首先面对的不是科幻迷,它面对的是整个社会人群,所以不能要求我们所有的观众,包括小孩、老年人,能像科幻迷一样在大量阅读的基础上进行想象,而是需要有一些能够更加直观的表达。

The novel is more of a pure creation, where there is a lot of space for people's imagination. The author can only describe the story through words and each reader can envision a different world, and its audience is mainly science fiction fans.

The film is different, as its audience is not only science fiction fans but also people from all walks of life. Therefore, we cannot ask all audience members, which include children and the elderly, to imagine on the basis of reading like those science fiction fans. Instead, we need to have some more explicit expressions.

其次,一拍出来形象就固化了,必须做到符合背景,有大量的地方要考证、防止穿帮。这又有赖于于我们社会的经济发展的支持,从2019年到我们2023年这四年的时间,《流浪地球2》电影中对各行各业资源的调动有了一个翻天覆地的变化。


 Q 

从编辑的角度,您认为刘慈欣创造出的宇宙,比如《流浪地球》、《三体》,独特的亮点在哪里?

 A 

作为科幻编辑,我们在挑选小说时非常看重的除了故事性和科技创意,还有它背后反映出来的人文精神。《流浪地球》和刘慈欣的很多作品都有几个明显的特点,第一思想深度非常深刻。科幻小说想象出大量未来技术,但未来技术只提供了一个背景,更重要的是它提供了一个包括世界观和矛盾冲突在内的极致化场景。刘慈欣特别擅长把这样的场景描写得非常的极致、极端,又非常可信,读读他的《微纪元》、《乡村教师》等作品也能看到。

As science fiction editors, we value not only storytelling and technological creativity, but also the humanism within the novels. The Wandering Earth and many of Liu Cixin's works have several distinctive features, the first of which is the profoundness of his thoughts.

Science fiction comes up with numerous future technologies, but these future technologies only serve as a background. What is more important is that it provides excellent scenario depictions including worldviews and conflicts. Liu Cixin is particularly good at describing such scenes in the extreme and also keeps them credible. You can also feel it in his works The Micro-Era and The Village Teacher.


第二,在这种真实性和现实脱离感的基础上,他又能够构建出一个非常宏大且非常有细节的故事,能够反映出一群人面对这个情况下的选择。他其实一直是把一个文明当成一个角色去写的,这一点是跟很多的科幻作品不一样。

Secondly, on the basis of authenticity and a sense of detachment from reality, he is able to build a very grand and detailed story that reflects the choices of a group of people facing these scenarios. He has always treated a civilization as a character, which is different from many science fiction works.


《流浪地球》中,不管是小说还是电影,给我们带来震撼的绝不是其中的一两个角色或者一两段感情,而是一个文明面对灾难时的选择。它会有一些纠结和争议,你甚至可以把它理解成一个人面对困难时内心的纠结与挣扎。这就是为什么《流浪地球》也好,刘慈欣别的作品也好,能给我们带来极大的震撼。他动辄就是数亿人生命的代价,历史时长是几千年几万年,时间尺度空间尺度都极致化,但细读会发现我们不认命不服输,要把文明的发展努力传承下去。这点是有中国文明底蕴做依托的,也是能够打动很多中国人的重要一点。

In The Wandering Earth, whether it is the novel or the movie, what shocks us is never one or two characters or one or two relationships, but a civilization's choice in the face of disaster. There are entanglements of emotions and controversy for them, and you can even think of “them” as a person struggling in the face of adversity. This is why The Wandering Earth, or Liu Cixin's other works, are so impactful.

In his novel, there is often the cost of the lives numbering in the hundreds of millions, the length of history is thousands and even tens of thousands of years, and the space scale is extreme. However, if you read it carefully, you will find that we are not resigned to defeat, that we have to carry forward the development of civilization. This is based on Chinese civilization, and it is an important point that moves so many Chinese people.


刘慈欣的作品是非常敏锐的,能把中国的时代背景、中国人的纠结、中国人的一些精神困惑与对未来的希望融入到他的作品里面去,《中国太阳》《流浪地球》《乡村教师》里都能看到中国人的时代影子。

 Q 

中国文化的底蕴我们也有感受到。我想外媒也能感受到,他们甚至还因为主角是中国人说《流浪地球》系列是民族主义,说他们不习惯看到中国人拯救世界。

 A 

在《流浪地球》系列中,人类是作为一个文明整体出现,而且故事中也不是中国人拯救世界,而是全人类在拯救世界,全人类在拯救全人类,其中中国人起到了一定的领导作用。再进一步说,这个故事不过是对美国人拯救世界的突破。

In the series of The Wandering Earth, human beings appear as a whole civilization. The story is not just about the Chinese but all of humanity saving the world. All human beings are saving all human beings, with Chinese people playing a certain leading role. To take it a step further, the story is nothing more than a break in the trend of Americans saving the world.

其实哪国人都能写自己民族的人参与拯救世界,并起到领导作用,关键在于写出来别人信不信、甚至自己国家的人信不信?以中国今天的综合国力、科技发展水平,中国已经证明自己有能力也有意愿也去做这么一件大事。有个非西方文明去领导全人类去拯救世界,这个我想是没有问题的!


除了国别之争,由全人类来解决全人类的问题、组成人类命运共同体,这个事情本身也是值得鼓励和值得去宣传的。

 Q 

你提到灾难……灾难似乎是科幻永恒的主题?

 A 

加拿大有位著名科幻作家罗伯特·索耶,他曾经有个有趣的比喻,说科学家是想象汽车的出现,而科幻作家想象的是堵车的出现。所言极是,因为真正的科幻小说预测科技并不是根本目的,更多是为构建故事去想象出来科学技术发展。科技的发展相对来说是比较好想象的,因为实验室科技、人类科技发展的大方向,是所有人都能够看得到的。

Robert J. Sawyer, a famous Canadian science fiction writer, once had an interesting analogy, saying that scientists imagine the emergence of cars while science fiction writers conceive the emergence of traffic jams. This is very true, because science fiction is not merely about predictions of technology, but is more about imagining technological developments for the fundamental purpose of telling stories. The development of science and technology is relatively easy to imagine, because the general direction of the development of laboratory technology and human technology is visible to all.


科幻作家假设它是真实的,然后问会发生什么事情?科幻的核心是想象人类社会的变化。未来是属于科技的、科技是不断前进的,但是这种进步带来的未必都是好的。科幻作家就会去想象科技进步会带来什么问题、带来一个什么样的未来,是好的还是坏的。

通过这种思考,创造大量的“平行世界”,并让现实中的人类去有意识地思考我们怎么样选择一个最好的未来,这是科幻小说非常有价值的一点。所以会有大量的病毒、环境、军事、人工智能题材的科幻小说,在技术发展还是社会伦理上造成各种各样的问题,然后进行思考和回避,这在我看来也是科幻小说的魅力和价值所在。

记者:张周项
视频:朱迪齐
编辑:左卓
实习生:李嘉昱